Talk:Demonic Illusion: Steaming Multistoried Building
Genjutsu? Should this really be classified as genjutsu? If it were a genjutsu why wouldn't try dispelling it? Being a mirage doesn't necessarily mean its genjutsu.--''Deva '' 04:03, August 25, 2011 (UTC) :Well it kinda makes sense going off what we've been told about the clam and Capt. Awesome. I think it'd be better than assuming that it's something else.--Cerez365™ 15:15, August 25, 2011 (UTC) Collaboration Technique It seemed to me, that despite the Clam providing the mist, the Mizukage was manipulating it. Could it be a combination Jutsu?--NaruHina fan (talk) 05:11, August 25, 2011 (UTC) :He could be, but right now I don't believe there is enough evidence to support this.--''Deva '' 05:17, August 25, 2011 (UTC) It's a Collaboration Technique 100%, because it also effected Mizukage! --Omojuze (talk) 16:56, September 21, 2011 (UTC) A collaboration technique is when more than one users contributes to the technique. Omnibender - Talk - 02:17, September 22, 2011 (UTC) Mirage genjutsu and the Doujutsus Doujutsus like Sharingan and Byakugan can see through the mirage? I'm wondering if the three doujutsu would be tricked by the FIELD genjutsu.Since the doujutsu already have been stated that they cannot be fooled by visual genjutsu, what would happen with them,if the chakra stay around the battlefield, thus, how the doujutsu can see through it? thanks for the answer :D :We don't know.--Cerez365™ 15:07, September 24, 2011 (UTC) Sensor's vs mirages On page 5 of chapter 557. What is the exact comment about the mirage, it seems like while the mirage was out they couldn't sense the Mizukage's real body. Also it would explain how the mizukage could fight Muu to a draw considering Muu's status as a sensor. (talk) 11:39, September 29, 2011 (UTC) :That would seem to be the case. We'll wait for raws though to get confirmation from Shounensuki.--Cerez365™ 13:13, September 29, 2011 (UTC) ::Has there been any update yet on this issue? I'm sure the raws are out by now. (talk) 15:28, September 30, 2011 (UTC) :::They're not. Omnibender - Talk - 19:15, September 30, 2011 (UTC) ::::Well you seemed somewhat interested in the outcome of this: Shounen's confirmed what was said by the sensor.--Cerez365™ 12:05, October 3, 2011 (UTC) :::Thanks so much for the confirmation! :) It just helps with both understanding the technique and learning that there were sensors in the division. (Before I was unsure.) (talk) 13:07, October 4, 2011 (UTC) Left out info i think the that theres lots of info left out of this article. first of the mirage can attack cause it was destroying gaara's sand shield and it couldnt have been the real mizukage doing it cause when his location wwas revealed by onoki he was far of in the background and apearently the mirage defeated all those ninja before gaara and onoki got ther. also i think the mirage can disapear and reapear cause the sensor that found nidaime mizukages real body while he was using joki boi said that the mirage of him couldnt disapear now. please discuss cause its been buggin me for awhile by not mentioning it. (talk) 22:01, October 16, 2011 (UTC) :I agree on the whole attacking bit. The mirage can at least become corporeal. Not too sure about the whole disappear and reappear bit though since it only disappeared after the technique was dispelled.--Cerez365™ 22:11, October 16, 2011 (UTC) ::I'd have to advise caution when it comes to these additions, neither of the referenced scenes were that descriptive when it came to explaining what had resulted in them, displaying only the outcomes of events rather than what had actually transpired. I think explicitly adding that the mirage can become corporeal, would be a rash decision, especially when considering that this ability was clearly identified as a genjutsu. Maybe a trivia note on these points would suffice, at least until we receive more information from a databook entry. Blackstar1 (talk) 22:28, October 16, 2011 (UTC) :::I was wondering about and the whole aspects of how mirages work for other people. I think a databook entry would really be welcomed.--Cerez365™ 23:15, October 16, 2011 (UTC) also it's possible that the mirage hurting the people is just an illusion remember genjutsu affect the five senses. or he could be attacking from the shadows and timing his attacks with the mirages like kagarai oboro and mubi, the only problem with this theory is that when the mizukages true possission was revealed he was too far away unless he has some long range water pistol lol. or he could be using his yin release to somehow make the mirage corporeal. or the mirage could be made from oily mist and cant be harmed cause it's vapor but it can semisolidify to attack. also i think what that guy meant about him dissapearing was that the mirage could dissapear and reapear in diferent places/ also you must consider that the clam may be increasing the potency of the genjutsu cause he did say he used genjutsu and if the mirage thing only worked with the clam then thats not enough to say he's a genjutsu specialist, and when he starded joki boi the ninja asked tsuchikage if it was another genjutsu sugesting that he's used more than one genjutsu against them. i know i'm throwing alot of speculation here but you must look at every possible angle of such a complex technique. please reply and share your thoughts about this. (talk) 21:29, November 25, 2011 (UTC) :The "dead" members didn't get up after the technique ended did they? There's a lot of speculation that can surround this technique, so it's best if we stick to the bare essentials regarding the technique until we get a databook entry.--Cerez365™ 21:33, November 25, 2011 (UTC) I suspect something like this: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Haze_Clone_Technique. I think while he invisible he times his attacks with the mirage to make him look real.Umishiru (talk) 21:38, November 25, 2011 (UTC) another thing.according to shounensuki the technique can create more than one mirage of the mizukage cause when nidaime was explaining it to those ninja he said the clam is whats creating the mirages which he said before he said the clam they were seeing was a mirage. and when gaara was talking about after he said nidaime was strong that they'd have to defeat the clam or the mirage(s) will keep coming, what that about? (talk) 06:37, December 3, 2011 (UTC) :Yes. This.--Cerez365™ 11:05, December 3, 2011 (UTC) last thing i swear, when he first explained that the real clam was hiding behind the mirage so those ninja couldnt see it it, that doesnt hold true cause onoki couldnt actually see the clam when he was behind the real one which was surounding it so he could see were it was and were to aim his dust technique. so i think the fact that the clam can create seperate mirages or genjutsu to camouflage itself and the mizukage so be mentioned at least in the trivia. what do the rest of you think. (talk) 06:37, December 4, 2011 (UTC) Can the clam "move"? Do you guys think that the clam can move? I ask this because it seems that the clam had change its location at the time Mizu summoned it and when Onoki destoyed it. most likely. since in nature clams have a large muscular "foot" in their shell which they use to drag themselves around. considering that it has the syphons like normal clams do, i would think it's safe to assume that it can. though exactly how we would put it in an article is beyond me, what do you admins think? (talk) 06:59, December 18, 2011 (UTC) :I'd assume so. Not too sure why it'd be necessary to mention though.--Cerez365™ 12:25, December 18, 2011 (UTC) Name Considering our policy of not translating main jutsu type names, which includes genjutsu, I think that this should be moved to "Mirage Genjutsu", of course, only until an official name for this technique is divulged. Omnibender - Talk - 18:51, January 19, 2012 (UTC) :Though I'd gotten used to this name, I don't have an issue with it being changed.--Cerez365™ 19:18, January 19, 2012 (UTC) Sounds fine to me. Skitts (talk) 19:26, January 19, 2012 (UTC) Captn' Awesome a user So it's been bothering me somewhat for a while so I think I should just get it out. Why aren't we listing Capt'n Awesome as a user? Given that he's stated he was a Yin Release Genjutsu user— Yin which governs imagination creating form etc it'd make sense that he was actually using Ōhamaguri's mist as a basis to create these mirages. This just seems more plausible that just le clam doing all the work or declaring that he was that type of user instead of just saying his clam does it. Although, I do understand that we might not have enough to go on at the moment but I just wanted to hear feedback from the community~...--Cerez365™ 01:21, January 30, 2012 (UTC) Given that he says that he is a Yin Release user and the proceeds to summon the clam, I think it's plausible. I don't mind listing him, as we never any other Yin related jutsu.--''Deva '' 01:32, January 30, 2012 (UTC) :le bump.--Cerez365™ 00:45, January 31, 2012 (UTC) But is he creating the illusions based on the mist? This would make this a collaboration technique. I think it would make sense for the mist to be a medium through which the illusions are created. The one reason I can think to be against this is that this wasn't actually said. Omnibender - Talk - 18:55, January 31, 2012 (UTC) Yeah, I agree that it seems to be a collaboration technique given the statement he made directly before he summoned his clam. Skitts (talk) 19:45, January 31, 2012 (UTC) Bump (talk) 10:41, February 5, 2012 (UTC) Why are you bumping O.o? @Omni- I was thinking that would be the only downside. Although all of this came to me after Ōnoki crashed into the clam and the Mizukage's hands were up. I don't think it'd hurt to add him though since I think revealing himself as such would've been pointless otherwise.--Cerez365™ 10:52, February 5, 2012 (UTC) Although I have no issue with the inclusion of the Second Mizukage, given his involvement only needs to be extremely minimal for this to even be classified as a collaboration technique, don't you think we're going a little too far by directly attributing the illusions to him alone? As Omni correctly identifies we're acting on plausibility, more so than evidence, so I don't see why we've suddenly become so specific in the part that the Mizukage plays. It would be very simple to rectify this and introduce a little more deserved ambiguity into the article but, fearing backlash, I'd rather hear other opinions before acting. Blackstar1 (talk) 15:03, February 5, 2012 (UTC) :Attributing it to the Second would make more sense based on the information we have currently. It's also more than plausible that the clam may also be creating illusions simultaneously, I just don't think we should have the information about him being a Yin Release genjutsu user and just sitting on it. It'd make more sense that he'd say his summoned creature was the Yin release use. With regards to the ambiguity you're referring to I'd love to see a sample of what you're proposing beforehand although in the end this seems to be one of the techniques that will be overhauled with a direct databook translation.--Cerez365™ 15:16, February 5, 2012 (UTC) I definitely agree on the databook translation being necessary here, I just hope Kishi uses the opportunity to deal with such issues, as I'd rather not have a situation like that of the Third Raikage, where he's attributed with a technique that he never actually uses. Anyway, I'll make my proposed edit to the article, but of course feel free to edit or even revert as necessary. Blackstar1 (talk) 15:26, February 5, 2012 (UTC) Are we going to add the clam as a Yin Release user? The way the page is at the time of my edit, I understand the page as: clam makes mist, Mizukage uses Yin Release's "form and shape creation" to make illusions out of the mist. If that's what we want to convey, then I don't think the clam should be a Yin Release user. Omnibender - Talk - 18:29, February 5, 2012 (UTC) Mirage and Ninjutsus ? In chapter 556 of the manga,Gaara begins to fight with Mizukage,but his sand shows no effect agains mizukage's oil(water)..but then Oonoki destroys the giant clam and the mizukage gaara was fighting reveals itself to be just an illusion. Then how gaara's sand got "wet" if he was just fighting an illusion the giant clam created ? The clam had already been destroyed prior to that if I remember correctly. Skitts (talk) 02:50, February 10, 2012 (UTC) The entire working of this technique is still unknown to us. Only Kishimoto can clear stuff like that up- hopefully in the next databook.--Cerez365™ 03:57, February 10, 2012 (UTC) Actually it hadn't been destroyed yet..gaara began to fight the mizukage,and some minutes later onoki destroyed the clam and revealed the real mizukage..it's confusing,looked like the illusion used the hidratation technique on gaara's sand :If you're going to post on talk pages, please sign your posts with four tilde ~~~~ or use the signature button.--Cerez365™ 18:21, February 11, 2012 (UTC) ::I believe someone here once suggested that the Mizukage could simply attack from a distance, making it seem that the attack came from the mirage. Omnibender - Talk - 20:02, February 11, 2012 (UTC) :::Ah. Wasn't there someone that did something like that in the series already as well? Employing genjutsu and attacking mirroring the attacks.--Cerez365™ 20:06, February 11, 2012 (UTC) ::::Team Oboro. Sakura and Shikamaru also thought this as a possible explanation for how the Six Paths of Pain worked just when Pain started invading Konoha. Omnibender - Talk - 20:16, February 11, 2012 (UTC) Let's wait for the next databook then-- (talk) 15:05, February 12, 2012 (UTC) Battle field wide genjutsu? please clarrify soemething. how is this a battlefield wide genjutsu? i mean all it does is make mirages of the mizu and clam, i dont see whats battlefield wide about it. and how can a genjutsu be a mirage? i juust dont get it, i mean if the genjutsu acts like a mirage and the mirage affects the enemys 5 senses like a genjutsu that would make perfect sense. has anyone else pondered this? (talk) 02:24, April 19, 2012 (UTC) :...Because the mist was dispersed across the entire battlefield and was the cause of the Genjutsu. And mirages are illusion, just as Genjutsu are. This is called" Mirage Genjutsu" because it is a Genjutsu that causes illusory copies (mirages) of the clam and 2nd Mizukage to appear in various places across the battlefielf, though it was unnamed in the manga. I'm not quite sure what you're not getting. o.o Skitts (talk) 03:47, April 19, 2012 (UTC) but we only saw the mist go up into the sky, it never covered the battlefield. (talk) 20:07, April 20, 2012 (UTC) :Mist has a tendency to disperse.--Cerez365™ (talk) 22:06, April 20, 2012 (UTC) sarcasm? oh and we didnt see the mist cover the battlefield, like when zabuza uses his kirigakure jutsu you see the mist but this case we didnt see the mist. (talk) 22:24, April 20, 2012 (UTC) :It wasn't sarcasm. Just diffusion if I remember correctly. It makes no sense that the mist would be expelled into the atmosphere and just stay in the air how would it affect the targets? It would make for a pretty poor technique.--Cerez365™ (talk) 22:39, April 20, 2012 (UTC) well i know ya cant explain everything in naruto using real world logic, but in the event that something isnt explained at least its something to fall back on. in real life a mirage is made when two air currents one hot one cold collide the light inbetween becomes diffused. the clam releasing mist into the atmosphere would make a cold and or hot air current to collide with the one in the sky already which the mizukage would presumably use yin release to make the mirages. based on the explanation the mizukage used for the technique, along with what was shown and mirages in real life i think this would be the best explanation. what think you? (talk) 22:47, April 20, 2012 (UTC) Yin Release OK we know this is a Genjutsu, as it has been confirmed. But I was thinking about it and this jutsu acts very weirdly for a genjutsu. It is not trapping people inside a genjutsu, instead it is creating an illusion that doesn't actually effect them or their chakra, just fools their senses. This is like a real mirage. My point being is that this is the only genjutsu technique that works this way- And the only confirmed Yin Release technique. I've also noticed that it is kinda like Izanagi's illusion part. It doesnt effect other people. I think it may be a thing unique to Yin Release, possible trivia at the least. Skarrj (talk) 03:53, December 15, 2012 (UTC) :Remember that Yin Release is used to give form to what a person imagines.--Cerez365™ (talk) 08:02, December 15, 2012 (UTC) Water Release too? Shouldn't that be included too since mist is sort of water. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 19:15, February 19, 2013 (UTC) Well one seay - you, one's old bean,, one's old bean, knoh, that's beeen ohn one's mind for some time noh. But isn't it fie Genjutsu being used through the mist, and not ah real mirage? Don't you know?--Yomiko-chan (talk) 19:21, February 19, 2013 (UTC) There's no proof that the mist/steam is water release, perhaps it is the clam's equivalent of farts or something--Elveonora (talk) 23:49, February 19, 2013 (UTC) : Makes since. And lol on the fart joke.--Yomiko-chan (talk) 23:55, February 19, 2013 (UTC)